(a) Talks with General de Gaulle.


Mtgs. of Heads of Govts. - bilateral, but no sign of multi-lateral.
 Mr K. wants to negotiate.  We are nearing to negotiatg posn - tho'
  Dr A.'s posn is too narrow.  de G. remains opposed:  for he
  fears German resentment at "another Versailles" when G.
  becomes a strong nation against, and he wants Fr. to have no
  part in that:  content to leave Anglo-Saxons to the dirty work.
  This puts us in diffy - as shown in my message.
 K. is prob. willing to wait - for a bit.


Schroder says no alternative to negotn.  Looks as tho' G. can be brght.
  along.  Essential ingredients & formula for D.D.R. & something
  on frontier.  Believe G. in the end will accept those:  tho' A.
  dared says so now for fear of leaks.  N.A. Council will press for
  negotns.  Ultimate ques. is wtr. we go on w'out French.  May
  need a mtg. of W. Heads of Govts. to settle that ques.
 Where de G. is wrong is tht. sitn on the ground in Berlin is


Will circulate records of mtg. with de G. - see and return.
 Impressions of de Gaulle.
 I mght. have bn. reluctant to press him on G. if that wd. have made
  more diff. on C. Market.  But looks as tho' he is as stiff on that
  as on G.  This being so, we prob. risk little on C. Market by
  pressing him on G. and isolating the French.
 Au fond, de G. believed that Anglo-Saxons will avert war and he
  will be able to say nous sommes trahis but enjoy the benefits.
 Choice for us now:  do we bring pressure from bottom up, or do
  we have a mtg. of Heads of Govts.  H. and I will consider,
  with Mr K.

Taken from C.C. 66(61) - Meeting held on 30 November 1961